Los Angeles Fires (thread split)

[Blkfyre]

""The only ones "blaming" people are republicans. Democrats are stating facts.""

You don't know what you are talking about.  I'm Independent and many of are blaming those in leadership roles in California who did nothing to try to prevent the fire.  Yes once the stage was set with fuel and high winds only God could stop it.  No one is saying this is not so.  California diverted money from cleaning out brush and other that could have made a difference.  With the fuel load winds of 30mph may have caused the same destruction.  At what point doing no prevention is acceptable?

The fuel is 12,000 homes, private property. How exactly is the government supposed to have prevented them from going up?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/los-angeles-california-wildfires-clearance-b2678877.html

"These arguments are largely incorrect, according to fire experts.

Both county and state rules already require individuals to maintain vegetation-free buffer zones around homes in high-risk areas.

Even these regulations, however, would not have stopped this round of fires, which spread quickly as Santa Ana winds with gusts of over 80 mph blew the blaze horizontally between houses and carried embers through the sky, touching off new blazes.

"All of the brush clearance, fuel breaks — they're very effective on what we would consider a normal day," Chief Brian Fennessy of the Orange County Fire Authority toldThe Los Angeles Times. "But what you're talking about here is probably less than 1% of all the fires that we respond to in Southern California."

"You could have put a 10-lane freeway in front of that fire and it would not have slowed it one bit," he added.

Making matters worse, hard-hit neighborhoods like Altadena and the Pacific Palisades are built in high-risk fire zones. In addition, 90 percent of Los Angeles County's housing stock was constructed before 1990, prior to fire-proofing code requirements taking effect.

"The houses are perfectly aligned with the direction of the prevailing Santa Ana winds," wildfire mapping expert Zeke Lunder toldThe Washington Post. "It is too late after the city is built to think about this stuff."

An analysis from the newspaper found that as of Saturday, more than 70 percent of the burned areas in L.A. County were in zones the state determined have very high fire risk."

"The bottom line is the winds far outweigh the fuel in terms of fire spread in a situation like this," Jon Keeley, fire ecologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, told LAist. "When you have these winds it makes fuels less relevant. And the fuels are definitely not relevant once it gets into the urban environment because the primary fuels are the homes."

[bats]

I saw on the news that the Democrats are blaming climate change instead of their incompetency.

I can't tell whether this comment is trolling or a demonstration of colossal ignorance, but if Democrats are blaming climate change it's because scientific research has shown that the likelihood of extreme wildfire weather conditions in California doubled between 1980 and 2020.

So, we know climate change is a big part of it. We also know there are many other factors, including many decades of construction on lands that have always been at risk for wildfires. But the changing climate and resulting local weather conditions have made that risk much higher.

[Hobby]

So, we know climate change is a big part of it. We also know there are many other factors, including many decades of construction on lands that have always been at risk for wildfires. But the changing climate and resulting local weather conditions have made that risk much higher.

How does climate change cause this fire?

Santa Anna winds have existed probably for thousands of years or more.  Brush builds up and if not controlled catches fire and spreads.  No climate change had zero do with this.  Only a moron would believe it. 

Tell me what wind speed was the fire department prepared in scenarios they could control with the fuel load present?  At what point would be beyond their control when nothing was done to reduce the fire load with proper management?  I doubt the fire could be controlled with wind speed of 30 mph.  Sure winds of 80 + mph is worst case scenario. But what where they prepared for? The management will be investigated and there will be many who will lose their jobs.  I hold Democrat leadership responsible.  In this case I do agree with Trump.

[bats]

How does climate change cause this fire?

Santa Anna winds have existed probably for thousands of years or more.  Brush builds up and if not controlled catches fire and spreads.  No climate change had zero do with this.  Only a moron would believe it. 

Tell me what wind speed was the fire department prepared in scenarios they could control with the fuel load present?  At what point would be beyond their control when nothing was done to reduce the fire load with proper management?  I doubt the fire could be controlled with wind speed of 30 mph.  Sure winds of 80 + mph is worst case scenario. But what where they prepared for? The management will be investigated and there will be many who will lose their jobs.  I hold Democrat leadership responsible.  In this case I do agree with Trump.

The climate-induced conditions that have increased wildfire risk have a lot more to do with aridity than winds. You're right that the Santa Ana winds predated humans wrecking the climate.

But climate change is the cause of hotter, drier summers and wetter winters. The wet winters cause the vegetation to grow more than usual, and then record dryness hits and you have the recipe for this disaster.

[HighStepper]

As right-wingers continue to generate hate by blaming Democrats, lesbians, and other fake causes of this natural disaster, Jon Stewart puts things in perspective:

https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=25277
Interesting video that, as you say, gives an interesting perspective. "Fire fucked a tornado." He brought out how 100 years ago developers built Pacific Palisades in defiance of nature.

[Blkfyre]

So, we know climate change is a big part of it. We also know there are many other factors, including many decades of construction on lands that have always been at risk for wildfires. But the changing climate and resulting local weather conditions have made that risk much higher.

How does climate change cause this fire?

Santa Anna winds have existed probably for thousands of years or more.  Brush builds up and if not controlled catches fire and spreads.  No climate change had zero do with this.  Only a moron would believe it. 

Tell me what wind speed was the fire department prepared in scenarios they could control with the fuel load present?  At what point would be beyond their control when nothing was done to reduce the fire load with proper management?  I doubt the fire could be controlled with wind speed of 30 mph.  Sure winds of 80 + mph is worst case scenario. But what where they prepared for? The management will be investigated and there will be many who will lose their jobs.  I hold Democrat leadership responsible.  In this case I do agree with Trump.

Thousands of years ago you didn't have people setting fires in those woods: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-12/on-an-ocean-view-trail-questions-swirl-about-what-and-who-started-palisades-fire

Thousands of years ago fires may have raged in the area and burned just as much land. But, you know, without MILLIONS of people in the area and construction it would have eventually burned out and in a few years it would have started growing again and a decade later you wouldn't know it had happened.

Until, you know, it happened again, also, without people around to know if it did or not...

[HighStepper]

So, we know climate change is a big part of it. We also know there are many other factors, including many decades of construction on lands that have always been at risk for wildfires. But the changing climate and resulting local weather conditions have made that risk much higher.

How does climate change cause this fire?

Santa Anna winds have existed probably for thousands of years or more.  Brush builds up and if not controlled catches fire and spreads.  No climate change had zero do with this.  Only a moron would believe it... 

As you pointed out there is little evidence for climate change affecting Santa Ana winds themselves. There is strong evidence that climate change has greatly increased the occurrence of extreme fire weather. Important ways that a longer dry season from climate change worsens wildfires:

• California's fire season has already lengthened considerably in a warming climate.
• Scarcer water supplies because of more intense droughts hinder firefighting efforts and recovery.
• There are fewer safe days for prescribed burns, making it harder to reduce fuel loads in vulnerable areas before fire season starts. Link
  
  
  
  
  

[HighStepper]

How do you stop wind?
What exactly can a local government (city, county, state) do to PREVENT a hurricane?

How Do You Stop a Hurricane Made of Fire? Wind gusts up to 100 mph.The magnitude of this fire has not been seen before in the Los Angeles area or anywhere else in the country.
Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, AKA, CAL FIRE, spends $4 billion a year on prevention and mitigation. Over the last decade that money has allowed it to assemble an army-like force of unprecedented sophistication and scale, with a staff of 12,000 and an aerial firefighting fleet larger than most countries' air forces. Link
A big part of what local government can do is changes in land use and building codes which could go a long way to withstanding these catastrophic events.

[Hobby]

""The bottom line is that the alleged underfunding had little to do with either preventing or fighting these fires because there is nothing in the human toolbox that could have stopped them.""


Newscum yesterday increased the budget another 1.5 billion to help control wild fires.  Lifted the environmental ban on control burning.  Control burning should have taken place 2 years ago and may have if fuel load was reduced fire fighters might have had a better chance at stopping this fire.  Never will know because nothing was done except allow the dead wood and brush to accumulate to where it exploded by the high winds.  Hopefully the state will look closely at other areas do control burns and thinking so this doesn't happen again.

[bats]

Newscum yesterday increased the budget another 1.5 billion to help control wild fires.  Lifted the environmental ban on control burning.  Control burning should have taken place 2 years ago and may have if fuel load was reduced fire fighters might have had a better chance at stopping this fire.  Never will know because nothing was done except allow the dead wood and brush to accumulate to where it exploded by the high winds.  Hopefully the state will look closely at other areas do control burns and thinking so this doesn't happen again.

You keep saying there were no prevention efforts. That seems dubious to me, but maybe you're the expert.

For these fires, my non-expert understanding is that controlled burns in wilderness areas would not have mattered since the fires have burned primarily on urban fuel.

[Hobby]

You keep saying there were no prevention efforts. That seems dubious to me, but maybe you're the expert.

For these fires, my non-expert understanding is that controlled burns in wilderness areas would not have mattered since the fires have burned primarily on urban fuel.

You can express your opinion and debate all you want but your personal attacks on my character indicate you are full of it.  Was there any control burns in the mountains in the last 10 years? Nope. Control burning was stopped by the environmental groups. If California would have done control burns this may well have still happened but at least something was done to prevent wildfires then Newscum wouldn't be ridiculed for not doing anything.  And for spending millions handing money to illegals !

[bats]

You can express your opinion and debate all you want but your personal attacks on my character indicate you are full of it.  Was there any control burns in the mountains in the last 10 years? Nope. Control burning was stopped by the environmental groups. If California would have done control burns this may well have still happened but at least something was done to prevent wildfires then Newscum wouldn't be ridiculed for not doing anything.  And for spending millions handing money to illegals !

What are you talking about? I expressed doubt about your repeated claim that no preventive measures were taken. That's not an attack on your character. 

[Danno]

California has control burns every year. Ag burning has been cut back. Remember rice fields burning in oct until 25 years ago

[Hobby]

What are you talking about? I expressed doubt about your repeated claim that no preventive measures were taken. That's not an attack on your character.

The fire started miles away from palicades.  Sure I know wind can carry embers like 50 miles and start new fires.  California had to know with fuel load and Santa Anna winds what the worst scenario could be.  So it's okay not to do any work to try to prevent a catastrophe like this because it can't be stopped?  If they said we did control prescription burns in the area to reduce the chance of wildfire I be okay with what happened but they did nothing and use the excuse climate change and high winds made this impossible to fight.  Show me what Calif did prior to this to help prevent this wild fire and I will shut the fuck up.

I got in trouble for newscum thought it his name so I won't use it anymore.

[bats]

The fire started miles away from palicades.  Sure I know wind can carry embers like 50 miles and start new fires.  California had to know with fuel load and Santa Anna winds what the worst scenario could be.  So it's okay not to do any work to try to prevent a catastrophe like this because it can't be stopped?  If they said we did control prescription burns in the area to reduce the chance of wildfire I be okay with what happened but they did nothing and use the excuse climate change and high winds made this impossible to fight.  Show me what Calif did prior to this to help prevent this wild fire and I will shut the fuck up.

I got in trouble for newscum thought it his name so I won't use it anymore.

I don't know what was done prior to this wildfire but I don't imagine it was nothing at all given the known risks.

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