Here is a list:
https://www.archives.gov/research/recover/notable-thefts.html
My favorite is Sandy Berger, the former National Security Adviser under the Clinton Administration. He was caught stealing documents and shoving down his underwear. All he got was 100 hours of community service and probation and fined $50,000. He also also had to pay $6,905 for the administrative costs of his two-year probation.
Didn't hear much about this at the time, it's as if the MSM covered it up. All the other people on the list were sentenced to prison, why wasn't Berger?
those aren't classified anymore
Quote from: Danno on Sep 09, 2022, 10:58 AMthose aren't classified anymore
Did you read the article?
The documents were classified.
The point of this topic is to put everything in context, you Democrats are acting like Trump walked into the National Archive and stuffed classified documents into his underwear.
Huge difference here! After Trump returned documents in answer to a lawful subpoena failed to return all and his lawyers lied. Trump himself caused his house to be searched. Trump himself has made this political, Trump himself is to blame for all of it... My guess is the DOJ has a very credible witness to all of Trump's shit and has blown the whistle on him. I am so sick of Trump and his bullshit...
Quote from: Romanticlover on Sep 09, 2022, 11:28 AMDid you read the article?
The documents were classified.
The point of this topic is to put everything in context, you Democrats are acting like Trump walked into the National Archive and stuffed classified documents into his underwear.
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anyone, you don't even have to be citizen, can view the records in the National Archives And Records Administration.
They aren't classified.
Quote from: Danno on Sep 09, 2022, 01:57 PManyone, you don't even have to be citizen, can view the records in the National Archives And Records Administration.
They aren't classified.
Have you been smoking the herb today?
You have to have a security clearance in order to read classified documents. In the case of Sandy Berger his security clearance was revoked for stealing documents and destroying them.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Sep 08, 2022, 02:50 PMDidn't hear much about this at the time, it's as if the MSM covered it up. All the other people on the list were sentenced to prison, why wasn't Berger?
First, there was no media coverup. It was front page news. To see this, just is type into the google machine something like "sandy berger news."
As for why Berger didn't go to prison like the other perps, do you actually think every crime involving classified documents is of equal severity? As stupid as that sounds, that seems to be your logic here.
Quote from: bats on Sep 09, 2022, 05:27 PMAs for why Berger didn't go to prison like the other perps, do you actually think every crime involving classified documents is of equal severity? As stupid as that sounds, that seems to be your logic here.
At least I have logic, as opposed to some of you Democrats.
For those who are high or just plain stupid: Berger was stealing classified documents and destroying them, Trump had a bunch of boxes of paperwork and probably didn't know what was in them. Berger was the NSA advisor and knew what he was doing was illegal. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
Good luck luck convincing a jury Trump knew what was in those boxes.
- So he took boxes of documents with different levels of classification
- Had them in the basement and in his offices
- Refused to return them with "polite" requests
- Sent some of the documents back in response to a subpoena
- Claimed ALL the documents were returned in a signed certified letter
"Trump did not know what was in those boxes." This is the defense you are going with?
If Trump is indicted he can assert his right as a defendant to make these classified documents public at trial to show the context. There is a danger that a judge could agree. The more secret the document, the more it open to a Graymail Defense. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graymail) Graymail is used as a defense tactic, forcing the government to drop a case to avoid revealing national secrets.
just trying educate you. you are wrong
Quote from: Romanticlover on Sep 09, 2022, 05:07 PMHave you been smoking the herb today?
You have to have a security clearance in order to read classified documents. In the case of Sandy Berger his security clearance was revoked for stealing documents and destroying them.
Quote from: Danno on Sep 10, 2022, 12:27 PMjust trying educate you. you are wrong
Anyone can go to the National Archives and can only review documents they have clearance for.
Quote from: HighStepper on Sep 09, 2022, 05:53 PM- So he took boxes of documents with different levels of classification
- Had them in the basement and in his offices
- Refused to return them with "polite" requests
- Sent some of the documents back in response to a subpoena
- Claimed ALL the documents were returned in a signed certified letter
"Trump did not know what was in those boxes." This is the defense you are going with?
Trump knows exactly what he had and what the FBI removed. Trump is Lex Luther all over again.
Since the other thread is locked I will write here:
The FBI didn't find any classified documents and no nuke codes, all he had were letters he wrote to other people while President. Was it against the National Archives act?...yes, but there wasn't any classified secrets in his possession.
Notice how you haven't heard anything lately in the news or from the DOJ?
It's because they have egg on their face and they want this to go away, I'm sure the Republicans will investigate the way it was handled as well.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 17, 2022, 08:36 PMSince the other thread is locked I will write here:
The FBI didn't find any classified documents and no nuke codes, all he had were letters he wrote to other people while President. Was it against the National Archives act?...yes, but there wasn't any classified secrets in his possession.
Notice how you haven't heard anything lately in the news or from the DOJ?
It's because they have egg on their face and they want this to go away, I'm sure the Republicans will investigate the way it was handled as well.
LMAO what? First, they definitely found classified documents. Remember the inventory generated by the search? The photo of documents with classified markings? They found lots of classified stuff.
Second, the case against Trump is active and ongoing. The only time we hear about it is when there's something interesting in a court filing. Just this past Monday, for example, we learned that Trump's lawyers argued that the documents stolen by Trump were "personal" and therefore should be kept from the view of prosecutors. It's an idiotic argument that won't fly with the judge.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/14/personal-trump-dearie-mar-a-lago/
The argument by the DOJ is they were official letters from the White House and they belong in the Nation Archives(per the Presidential Records Act), Trump's lawyers are saying they were personal letters.
Nothing in that WaPo article says they were classified documents.
Here's another article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/14/trump-motive-mar-a-lago-documents/
Is Trump an egotistic asshole that should of turned the documents over?
Yes but the documents are harmless and he wanted to keep them as mementos.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 17, 2022, 09:29 PMIs Trump an egotistic asshole that should of turned the documents over?
Yes but the documents are harmless and he wanted to keep them as mementos.
Who gives a FUCK what he wanted to do. He broke the law, pure and simple. Anybody else would not be treated with kid gloves. They would be in jail.
Quote from: HighStepper on Nov 17, 2022, 10:18 PMWho gives a FUCK what he wanted to do. He broke the law, pure and simple. Anybody else would not be treated with kid gloves. They would be in jail.
Again that was the point of this thread: is having personal letters saying 'it was nice meeting you at the dinner' the same as walking into the National Archives and stuffing classified documents down your underwear?
I say no it isn't and Trump shouldn't go to jail. To be fair I would say the same thing if it was a former Democrat President.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 17, 2022, 09:29 PMNothing in that WaPo article says they were classified documents.
Nice work. Nothing in that article says anything about the General Theory of Relativity, either, but that doesn't mean Einstein's work is moot.
I cited the WaPo article to point out that the case against Trump in the Mar-a-Lago documents matter is active and ongoing, contrary to your assertion that we haven't heard anything about it lately.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 18, 2022, 07:41 AMAgain that was the point of this thread: is having personal letters saying 'it was nice meeting you at the dinner' the same as walking into the National Archives and stuffing classified documents down your underwear?
I say no it isn't and Trump shouldn't go to jail. To be fair I would say the same thing if it was a former Democrat President.
Nobody but you is saying this is all about "personal letters" written by Trump while he was president. There is obviously a range of materials, including classified materials, at issue.
Trump's own attorneys initially argued to the Special Master that the documents were covered by either executive privilege or attorney-client privilege. Only in their latest filing, on appeal, have they shifted to arguing that Trump, by taking possession of them, designated the documents as "personal" and therefore not owned by the United States.
Not only is that an absurd argument with no basis in law, but he's making it
on appeal for the first time. As DOJ points out in their reply brief, you can't do that, but even if you could there's no way for a president to magically convert presidential records to personal records.
You've ignored all of this, of course, so that once again we have a commenter offering opinions on issues about which they've either been too lazy to do the research or are incapable of comprehending. It's puzzling.
I've ignored nothing, this is a witch-hunt by the Democrats and their DOJ goons.
I guarantee the DOJ will drop the case or the judge will dismiss it next year, I can tell the judge has already heard enough.
be nice to know which top secret documents the Saudi's got for the $2 billion they gave to Jared
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 18, 2022, 10:41 AMI've ignored nothing, this is a witch-hunt by the Democrats and their DOJ goons.
I guarantee the DOJ will drop the case or the judge will dismiss it next year, I can tell the judge has already heard enough.
It's been like a half hour since you made your "guarantee" and it was just reported that the AG is going to appoint a special counsel. So, no, the case(s) aren't going away.
AG Garland has won 100% of his cases. He doesn't move forward unless he knows he will win.
Quote from: Romanticlover on Nov 17, 2022, 08:36 PMSince the other thread is locked I will write here:
The FBI didn't find any classified documents and no nuke codes, all he had were letters he wrote to other people while President. Was it against the National Archives act?...yes, but there wasn't any classified secrets in his possession.
Notice how you haven't heard anything lately in the news or from the DOJ?
It's because they have egg on their face and they want this to go away, I'm sure the Republicans will investigate the way it was handled as well.
You keep saying that, that they didn't find any classified documents. Why then does the press keep saying they did?
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-abandoned-key-claim-mar-230343691.html
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/officials-reportedly-think-know-trump-took-classified-docs-rcna57257
Guess the DOJ didn't keep you in the loop.
Silence is golden when building a case.
Quote from: HighStepper on Sep 09, 2022, 05:53 PM- So he took boxes of documents with different levels of classification
Actually movers pack up contents and move to new residence.
That is standard for any President moving out of the Whitehouse.
Quote from: Bande on Nov 18, 2022, 07:23 PMActually movers pack up contents and move to new residence.
That is standard for any President moving out of the Whitehouse.
What isn't standard is when contacted multiple times in multiple ways NOT returning documents that didn't belong to him. Which, if he had, we wouldn't be having this conversation...
Quote from: Bande on Nov 18, 2022, 07:23 PMActually movers pack up contents and move to new residence.
That is standard for any President moving out of the Whitehouse.
[/quotQuote from: Bande on Nov 18, 2022, 07:23 PMActually movers pack up contents and move to new residence.
That is standard for any President moving out of the Whitehouse.
So why didnt trump return all the classfied doc the national arhives asked for... Someone dropped a dime on trump which caused the fbi to go in and recover documents labeled classified... trump probably took the documents just to fuck with biden
trump probably took the documents just to fuck with biden
then Trump is dumber than I thought, he was selling those secrets. Got $2 billion for the kids.
!