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A pregnant Plano woman who got a ticket for driving alone in an HOV lane plans to fight the citation, arguing her unborn baby should count as a second person. Texas penal code recognizes an unborn child as a person. Link

Yes, but they were occupying the same seat so it doesn't count...

That is an interesting legal theory, lol

Quote from: Hobby on Jul 10, 2022, 08:17 PMYes, but they were occupying the same seat so it doesn't count...

Funnily enough, Texas law doesn't say that: https://www.txdot.gov/driver/managed-lanes/high-occupancy-vehicle-lanes.html

"Who can use the HOV lane?

A vehicle occupied by two or more people or a motorcyclist may use HOV lanes."

Texas Department of Transportation is silent on a fetus being a person.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Jul 10, 2022, 08:34 PMFunnily enough, Texas law doesn't say that: https://www.txdot.gov/driver/managed-lanes/high-occupancy-vehicle-lanes.html

"Who can use the HOV lane?

A vehicle occupied by two or more people or a motorcyclist may use HOV lanes."

Okay, Genius... let's see you prove there were two people.  One would be the driver... the other a passenger right? Oops no one in the passenger seat...

Quote from: Hobby on Jul 10, 2022, 09:20 PMOkay, Genius... let's see you prove there were two people.  One would be the driver... the other a passenger right? Oops no one in the passenger seat...

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/SB00008H.pdf

"A"Unborn child" means a human fetus or embryo in any stage of gestation from fertilization until birth."

"Reflecting its nature and legislative intent, the Texas Heartbeat Act uses the term "unborn child" for the fetus or embryo irrespective of the gestational phase in the definition section: "Unborn child" means a human fetus or embryo in any stage of gestation from fertilization until birth." Texas Health and Safety Code Sec. 171.201(7)."

So, considering the HOV lane says "A vehicle occupied by two or more people or a motorcyclist may use HOV lanes." and says nothing about seats, why shouldn't she be right? It is a child right? With rights? If it has rights, then it should fall under HOV law, right?

The law applies to people that can be seen...  How would you know if there was more than one person that would comply with the 2 passenger requirement if you could not see the other?  Hmm? It only takes a little common sense to figure out, obviously something you are short on...

She has a court date is July 20th. So we will see what the judges take on it is then. 

Another case, which happened in 1987, involved Sue Ann Yasger, a California woman who was five months pregnant. As the L.A. Times reported, the judge ended up dismissing her $52 fine stating that it was in "the interest of justice." Link
From another source I heard Yasger's case was the last case of the day. Her assertion was taken humorously, so the judge dismissed it rather than hearing arguments and deliberating it.

In November 2005, Dickinson, a 23-year-old pregnant woman that was weeks away from giving birth, fought a $383 fine in court stating that her unborn child counted as a passenger. Sgt. Dave Norton said, that her argument "would require officers to carry guns, radios, and pregnancy testers, and I don't think we want to go there." Apparently, the judge in the case agreed and ruled that the unborn fetus did not count as a passenger, since a "passenger" needs to be a separate occupant in the vehicle.

You never know what a court is going to do... Her case is a bit silly and is taking up time and court money so it could anger the judge or he might just say the case is dismissed.  Probably as the judge I would not want to attract lots of attention so I would just dismiss the case and warn the lady next she will have to pay a fine.

Quote from: Hobby on Jul 11, 2022, 12:15 AMThe law applies to people that can be seen...  How would you know if there was more than one person that would comply with the 2 passenger requirement if you could not see the other?  Hmm? It only takes a little common sense to figure out, obviously something you are short on...

I and other parents I know were pulled over because the cop didn't see the car seat until they walked up to the car, so seeing someone is not necessarily a given.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Jul 11, 2022, 12:41 AMI and other parents I know were pulled over because the cop didn't see the car seat until they walked up to the car, so seeing someone is not necessarily a given.

You get pulled over. The cop then sees the other person, which can be a child in a car seat. You are released without getting a ticket.

Quote from: HighStepper on Jul 11, 2022, 01:03 AMYou get pulled over. The cop then sees the other person, which can be a child in a car seat. You are released without getting a ticket.

Blkryre is now just making up shit! Too simple for Blkfyre to comprehend... The purpose of the lane is for carpooling so what should happen is the law changed to define passengers aged 16 and above qualify as passengers, not children.  The reason I say 16 and above is this is the earliest age for driver licensing. This would help insure the lane is used to encourage carpooling among drivers that would have driven another car.

Quote from: HighStepper on Jul 11, 2022, 01:03 AMYou get pulled over. The cop then sees the other person, which can be a child in a car seat. You are released without getting a ticket.

How would you know if she is pregnant or has a basketball under her blouse? 

Quote from: Hobby on Jul 11, 2022, 09:31 AMBlkryre is now just making up shit! Too simple for Blkfyre to comprehend... The purpose of the lane is for carpooling so what should happen is the law changed to define passengers aged 16 and above qualify as passengers, not children.  The reason I say 16 and above is this is the earliest age for driver licensing. This would help insure the lane is used to encourage carpooling among drivers that would have driven another car.

Do I actually believe she will win? Nah.

Are we here because of conservative arguments of personhood (which, to remind you, includes corporations)? Yup, so I am here for hoisting them on their own petard And to be fair, my arguments are no less valid than some of the outrageous youtube videos we are inundated with daily!