Russia Ukraine War

[Hobby]

Right now 1,000s and 1,000s of Ukrainians men, women and children are being slaughtered by Putin... I won't say Russia as I don't really believe Russian citizens condone Putin or even know this is happening. Biden wants to sanction Putin to death so far things have only got worse for Ukraine since sanctions were imposed. Putin knows Biden is scared and won't risk WW3. Sanctions are not going to work against a mad man war criminal. Sanctions did not work to stop Russia from invading the Crimea. I think we are at show down with Russia either we risk WW3 by assembling the world against Putin risk WW3 same as Kennedy did or Zelensky surrenders Ukraine to Putin.

[HighStepper]

At the start of WWII, FDR promised that we would not participate in foreign wars, would not send our army, naval or air forces to fight in foreign lands.

It was not until the attack on Pearl Harbor that America got into the war.

There needs to be a political will to engage in war if necessary.  Under our Constitution it is Congress that declares war. A lot of politicians talk shit, but not willing to step up. The last war declared by Congress was WWII.

[dogwalker]

"I won't say Russia as I don't really believe Russian citizens condone Putin or even know this is happening."

       I agree.  As many know, I do a good amount of international traveling and what I have observed is that people around the world have a lot of what I claim to be superficial differences that do not matter if one gets to the root of things, but deep down many are very similar.  Most want to be happy, do well at their work if they work, and love their friends and family [which means not engage in war].  When there are issues it is usually their government that is the problem.  I've been to Russia.  The people there are fine.  They remind me a bit of Germans except their food is worse and since some German food is bad already, Russian food is really bad (to me). (I ate mostly Indian and Chinese when I was there.....lol).  Because I have been there, I would guess the average Russian would not be in favor of the war, just as our news suggests.   Maybe some older people would be but not the younger ones that are less than about 30-40 years old [post Soviet Union collapse].

[bats]

I believe Biden and the rest of the West are necessarily abiding by the Cold War principle that nuclear powers must do everything possible to avoid mutually assured destruction. As JFK said in a speech shortly before his death:

Above all, while defending our own vital interests, nuclear powers must avert those confrontations which bring an adversary to a choice of either a humiliating retreat or a nuclear war. To adopt that kind of course in the nuclear age would be evidence only of the bankruptcy of our policy—or of a collective death-wish for the world.
https://www.jfklibrary.org/archives/other-resources/john-f-kennedy-speeches/american-university-19630610

Biden is not scared. He can't afford to be. Neither, however, can he afford to do anything that would put Putin in a box.

Even if we assume Putin is not suicidal, it's best not to do anything that would put that assumption to the test.

[Hobby]

"Even if we assume Putin is not suicidal, it's best not to do anything that would put that assumption to the test."

Putin uses this to his advantage! What is the purpose of having the most powerful military in the world's history if you are not willing to use it against Bullies? Putin might retaliate and start a nuclear war!  Do we sit back afraid of provoking a show down with Russia to defend a free independent country while Putin slaughters innocent civilians?  I thought America stood for freedom not only here at home but for all those countries around the world!  We have been on a collision course with Russia since the end of WW2.  Putin did not mobilize his army's and invade Ukraine to turn back because of sanctions. Putin is not going to stop now until he has taken over the Ukraine. If we do nothing to stop Putin China will invade and take Taiwan.  Putin is not at this point in history attacking NATO countries so Biden is not being put to the test, it is easy for Biden to say we will stand with and defend NATO allies.  Does it really matter if Ukraine is NATO Country or not?  This is a freedom loving country that has independence from Russia and now Russia is invading killing Ukrainians by the 1,000's!  Should we not go in and help this country defend it's self? A super power is invading another country it will take another super power to to stop them.  By not stopping Putin here and now we may be actually enabling Putin and China to start WW3

[bats]

Does it really matter if Ukraine is NATO Country or not?

Yes, it does. If Putin touches an Article V nation he knows that is something he can't come back from regardless of nuclear weapons. But Putin would love nothing more than for NATO to initiate an expansion of the war because a NATO attack on Russian soil (and it would have to involve Russian soil) is the only thing that could rally Russian citizens to his cause.

Remember that Russians don't view the end of WWII through our lens. They call it "The Great Patriotic War" in honor of the estimated 26 million Russians who perished during the conflict. The Russian people are proud, and attacking them would be the best thing for Putin's propaganda machine.

[HighStepper]

Arnold Schwarzenegger's candid message to Russians: 'I have to tell the truth'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qax9gGjFeUU

[Blkfyre]

"Even if we assume Putin is not suicidal, it's best not to do anything that would put that assumption to the test."

Putin uses this to his advantage! What is the purpose of having the most powerful military in the world's history if you are not willing to use it against Bullies? Putin might retaliate and start a nuclear war!  Do we sit back afraid of provoking a show down with Russia to defend a free independent country while Putin slaughters innocent civilians?  I thought America stood for freedom not only here at home but for all those countries around the world!  We have been on a collision course with Russia since the end of WW2.  Putin did not mobilize his army's and invade Ukraine to turn back because of sanctions. Putin is not going to stop now until he has taken over the Ukraine. If we do nothing to stop Putin China will invade and take Taiwan.  Putin is not at this point in history attacking NATO countries so Biden is not being put to the test, it is easy for Biden to say we will stand with and defend NATO allies.  Does it really matter if Ukraine is NATO Country or not?  This is a freedom loving country that has independence from Russia and now Russia is invading killing Ukrainians by the 1,000's!  Should we not go in and help this country defend it's self? A super power is invading another country it will take another super power to to stop them.  By not stopping Putin here and now we may be actually enabling Putin and China to start WW3

That is something that is on Congress. Being that Russia would take any intervention as provoking war, and the President does NOT have the power to declare war, it is hardly his fault. I don't hear ANY Republican's saying we need to start something, in fact, they are amazingly quiet, almost as if they don't want to disturb what an ally is doing considering they have for years been kissing Putin's ass along with Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=9N51XCEoQJ4

[Hobby]

That is something that is on Congress. Being that Russia would take any intervention as provoking war, and the President does NOT have the power to declare war, it is hardly his fault. I don't hear ANY Republican's saying we need to start something, in fact, they are amazingly quiet, almost as if they don't want to disturb what an ally is doing considering they have for years been kissing Putin's ass along with Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=9N51XCEoQJ4

Who said anything about declaring war other than Putin said it would be war if the US sends its military into Ukraine. Ever hear of the War Powers Act?  You think if Russia launches an attack on the US the President has to wait for congress to declare war before launching a retaliatory strike response?  Vietnam, no declaration of war was ever declared by congress yet we were at war. Can you explain this? The President can commit our military up to I think 90 days. But you already know this.

[Blkfyre]

You did:

"Putin knows Biden is scared and won't risk WW3. Sanctions are not going to work against a mad man war criminal. Sanctions did not work to stop Russia from invading the Crimea. I think we are at show down with Russia either we risk WW3 by assembling the world against Putin risk WW3 same as Kennedy did or Zelensky surrenders Ukraine to Putin."

[Hobby]

You did:

"Putin knows Biden is scared and won't risk WW3. Sanctions are not going to work against a mad man war criminal. Sanctions did not work to stop Russia from invading the Crimea. I think we are at show down with Russia either we risk WW3 by assembling the world against Putin risk WW3 same as Kennedy did or Zelensky surrenders Ukraine to Putin."

Do you know the difference between risking starting a war and declaring war? I don't think so, you just like to argue with stupid nonsense.  Any thing the US Military does in the world or the US is involved with has a risk associated with starting a war.  Biden is scared. Hell I would be scared be too but that would not deter me from taking action against a murderer, terrorist or bully even with military force if needed.  Putin has to be stopped period.

IMO This is what Biden needs to send to fly over Ukraine to stop Putin in the Ukraine.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104500/b-1b-lancer/

From 1983 to 1989 I worked for Rockwell with a top secret clearance to help build this aircraft's electronic systems. This bomber is extraordinary to say the least. Super fast speeds. Many things are not said in this release.  The presence of the B1B is an awesome powerful deterrent. that Russia has no defense for. If Trump was president b1s would already have been on patrol fully armed long before Russia made a move on Ukraine.  Kennedy risked war by ordering B52s with nukes headed in the air for Moscow if Russia did not turn back.  Fortunately we are still here, Russia backed down.  Kennedy had no authorization to act risking a war. It was the right thing to do.  If Kennedy had not stayed strong Cuba would be today armed with Russian Nuclear missiles aimed at us.

[HighStepper]

... Ever hear of the War Powers Act? 

War Powers Act

"Ever since its passage in 1973, politicians have been divided on the War Powers Act's effectiveness. Supporters of the resolution maintain that it is a much-needed check on the president's ability to make war without Congressional approval."

"Critics, meanwhile, argue the law has failed to create better coordination between the executive and legislative branches. Some believe the law is too restrictive on the president's ability to respond to foreign emergencies..."

"Because of the War Powers Act's contentious history, there have occasionally been calls for the resolution to be repealed or amended."

[Hobby]

War Powers Act

"Ever since its passage in 1973, politicians have been divided on the War Powers Act's effectiveness. Supporters of the resolution maintain that it is a much-needed check on the president's ability to make war without Congressional approval."

"Critics, meanwhile, argue the law has failed to create better coordination between the executive and legislative branches. Some believe the law is too restrictive on the president's ability to respond to foreign emergencies..."

"Because of the War Powers Act's contentious history, there have occasionally been calls for the resolution to be repealed or amended."

Yes there is debate over the war powers act.  Democrats alleged that should Trump became President during his 2016 campaign he would have a nuclear arsenal at his disposal and would start WW3... that never happened. Debate over the war powers act is a good topic for another discussion.  Biden has the authority to commit our military in Ukraine. Biden is too afraid Putin will make good on his threats.  So while Biden contemplates the affects of sanctions and talks tough supporting NATO countries people are being killed or displaced in Ukraine...

The United Nations says nearly a quarter of Ukraine's population is now displaced by the war. On top of the 3.2 million Ukrainians who have fled the country, another 6.5 million people have been displaced within Ukraine, according to the U.N.'s International Organization for Migration.

[zep]

The bottom line is... Do we want American troops dying to protect a nation that we have no alliance with and that has no strategic importance to us.   I say no.  Some may say yes. I feel for the people, I hate what Putin is doing but I'd rather supply and support Ukraine and let Europeans help with troops if needed.  Let France, Germany, Great Britain step forward first.

[Hobby]

The bottom line is... Do we want American troops dying to protect a nation that we have no alliance with and that has no strategic importance to us.   I say no.  Some may say yes. I feel for the people, I hate what Putin is doing but I'd rather supply and support Ukraine and let Europeans help with troops if needed.  Let France, Germany, Great Britain step forward first.

We don't to have troops present in Ukraine the country is not that large for air support and missle attacks on Russian military. We have drones that can do the job and take out tanks etc...