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https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-ban-immigrants-religion-campaign-speech-1234860524/

"I will implement strong ideological screening of all immigrants," the former president vowed. "If you hate America, if you want to abolish Israel, if you don't like our religion (which a lot of them don't), if you sympathize with jihadists, then we don't want you in our country and you are not getting in."

The First Amendment is widely interpreted to ensure the separation of church and state, and screening immigrants over their religious beliefs would appear to stand in pretty clear violation of the nation's founding principles. It's of little concern to Trump, who has made abundantly clear that his first term in office was only a warm-up for the anti-immigrant measures he's ready to implement if he's reelected. Rolling Stone reported in May that Trump is also planning on expanding the Muslim ban he instituted during his first term in office.

So the second Amendment is inviolate to conservatives, but the First Amendment?  That apparently ONLY applies if you are white and Christian...

I don't want anyone coming to America who clearly hates Americans. Do You? What purpose could they have in coming here if not to cause trouble. Besides our constitution bill of rights do afford any personal rights to non citizens.

The key phrase, "if you sympathize with jihadists" has a widespread appeal playing to fears. These fears are not unfounded.

Scholars can discuss the nuanced meaning of Jihad in the Islamic religion. However, since the 911 attack on America we have come to associate Jihadist with Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and many other violent extremist groups.  They believe there are 3 kinds of people, Muslims, those that will become Muslims, and those that will never be Muslims. The latter group is to be put to the death. Hamas the government of Gaza who attacked Israel has proclaimed from the beginning that all Jews should die and Israel should not exist. 

Why in the hell would we want these hateful destructive people in our country?

Many liberals in their arrogant ignorance believes that the values to freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance are the right values that should be practiced by everyone. There are people in the world that want no part of these values. We need to wake the fuck up and accept that fact.

All immigrants before admission to our country should take a simple oath:
"I am not a member of and do not subscribe to the principles of any group opposed to our form of government. "

Lots of countries do background checks on immigrants and don't put up with dissent, try protesting in Iran or North Korea and see what happens. Unfortunately we are not vetting all the immigrants coming in our southern border and many security experts and Congressmen are warning some of them are terrorists.

Quote from: HighStepper on Oct 24, 2023, 07:23 PMThe key phrase, "if you sympathize with jihadists" has a widespread appeal playing to fears. These fears are not unfounded.

Scholars can discuss the nuanced meaning of Jihad in the Islamic religion. However, since the 911 attack on America we have come to associate Jihadist with Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and many other violent extremist groups.  They believe there are 3 kinds of people, Muslims, those that will become Muslims, and those that will never be Muslims. The latter group is to be put to the death. Hamas the government of Gaza who attacked Israel has proclaimed from the beginning that all Jews should die and Israel should not exist. 

Why in the hell would we want these hateful destructive people in our country?

Many liberals in their arrogant ignorance believes that the values to freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance are the right values that should be practiced by everyone. There are people in the world that want no part of these values. We need to wake the fuck up and accept that fact.

All immigrants before admission to our country should take a simple oath:
"I am not a member of and do not subscribe to the principles of any group opposed to our form of government. "

1. Immigrants who wish to become U.S. citizens must take an oath to defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That's been true since the Naturalization Act of 1906.

2. We need to wake the fuck up and accept the fact that the Trump wing of today's Republican Party DOES NOT believe in or practice the values of freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance. That's a much more significant danger to the country than any group of immigrants.

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 24, 2023, 07:03 PMI don't want anyone coming to America who clearly hates Americans. Do You? What purpose could they have in coming here if not to cause trouble. Besides our constitution bill of rights do afford any personal rights to non citizens.

" if you want to abolish Israel, if you don't like our religion (which a lot of them don't),"

Neither of those things have anything to do with hating Americans or causing trouble

Quote from: bats on Oct 24, 2023, 08:23 PM1. Immigrants who wish to become U.S. citizens must take an oath to defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That's been true since the Naturalization Act of 1906.
 

Yes, I did not clarify my thinking. I was referring to people coming to the country prior to/not intending to apply for citizenship, i.e., work/student visas, asylum seeking, etc.

Quote from: bats on Oct 24, 2023, 08:23 PM2. We need to wake the fuck up and accept the fact that the Trump wing of today's Republican Party DOES NOT believe in or practice the values of freedom, democracy, and religious tolerance. That's a much more significant danger to the country than any group of immigrants.

Your point is well taken. More violence/death will come from the domestic terrorist than from Islamic extremist. Our democracy is more threatened by the MAGA extremist than from immigrants.

Most coming from central America are catholic

All the terroist lately are MAGA nuts

I think it's way more complicated than the above.   Nothing will be perfect.  Oaths don't mean shit....actions not words are what matters.

As Danno alluded to.....who bombed OKC?  An American, a former soldier who had a grievance against the government.  I often think of that.  Lately our own citizens can be as dangerous as any foreigner.  The average person no matter what their background just wants to live life and is not a threat.  How to defend against rare extremists whether home grown or from another country is the bigger issue.....and this is obviously not a problem just in the US.

More people died on 9/11 due to foreigners than in OKC from an American, >2000 vs 168.

Quote from: dogwalker on Oct 25, 2023, 12:45 AMI think it's way more complicated than the above.  Nothing will be perfect.  Oaths don't mean shit....actions not words are what matters.

As Danno alluded to.....who bombed OKC?  An American, a former soldier who had a grievance against the government.  I often think of that.  Lately our own citizens can be as dangerous as any foreigner.  The average person no matter what their background just wants to live life and is not a threat.  How to defend against rare extremists whether home grown or from another country is the bigger issue.....and this is obviously not a problem just in the US.

My initial response was to the Trump playing the immigrant card even heavier than his first run for the Presidency. He touches on some real concerns. Islamic phobia is found in the US and throughout Europe.

The irony here is that the threat to democracy is now coming from within. We have met the enemy and the enemy is us.

west end boys like me will not

What is "our" religion?  Did Trump forget (or ignore) America is very diverse with respect to religion, language, ethnicities,  and many other things?  Do we have a single national religion now? If so I didn't get that memo.  Perhaps he meant "if you don't like MY religion" ?  He was raised as a Presbyterian Christian but now claims to be a non-denominational Christian.

Quote from: dogwalker on Oct 25, 2023, 11:43 PMWhat is "our" religion?  Did Trump forget (or ignore) America is very diverse with respect to religion, language, ethnicities,  and many other things?  Do we have a single national religion now? If so I didn't get that memo.  Perhaps he meant "if you don't like MY religion" ?  He was raised as a Presbyterian Christian but now claims to be a non-denominational Christian.

Trump has a habit of saying the quiet part out loud.

"Our religion" relates to Christian Nationalism. Trump developed a strong alliance with evangelical Christians. He is playing to that sentiment. The political move to create a theocracy was touched on in a previous thread https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=14711 which was posted in support of your comments about people don't want to think https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=14708

The new Speaker of the House He believes America was founded as a "Christian nation." Johnson called 'the most unabashedly Christian nationalist speaker in history' Link