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1994 agreement that led to Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

After the fall of the Soviet Union Ukraine inherited the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqyfeE-a1A

In hindsight, would Russia have invaded Ukraine if Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons?
And since they did give them up in exchange for our protection, are we not honor bound to defend Ukraine?

Underground silos on its military bases held long-range missiles that carried up to 10 thermonuclear warheads, each far stronger than the bomb that leveled Hiroshima. Only Russia and the United States had more weapons. The removal of this arsenal often gets hailed as a triumph of arms control. Diplomats and peace activists cast Ukraine as a model citizen in a world of would-be nuclear powers. Link

Quote from: HighStepper on Mar 19, 2022, 03:22 PM1994 agreement that led to Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

After the fall of the Soviet Union Ukraine inherited the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqyfeE-a1A

In hindsight, would Russia have invaded Ukraine if Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons?
And since they did give them up in exchange for our protection, are we not honor bound to defend Ukraine?

Underground silos on its military bases held long-range missiles that carried up to 10 thermonuclear warheads, each far stronger than the bomb that leveled Hiroshima. Only Russia and the United States had more weapons. The removal of this arsenal often gets hailed as a triumph of arms control. Diplomats and peace activists cast Ukraine as a model citizen in a world of would-be nuclear powers. Link

Quote from: HighStepper on Mar 19, 2022, 03:22 PM1994 agreement that led to Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

After the fall of the Soviet Union Ukraine inherited the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqyfeE-a1A

In hindsight, would Russia have invaded Ukraine if Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons?
And since they did give them up in exchange for our protection, are we not honor bound to defend Ukraine?

Underground silos on its military bases held long-range missiles that carried up to 10 thermonuclear warheads, each far stronger than the bomb that leveled Hiroshima. Only Russia and the United States had more weapons. The removal of this arsenal often gets hailed as a triumph of arms control. Diplomats and peace activists cast Ukraine as a model citizen in a world of would-be nuclear powers. Link

I don't think that matters. After the USSR fell which Ukraine was part of all the predecessors before Zelensky were loyal to Moscow. Zelensky probably told Putin to go to hell and refused to be Putin's puppet. Zelensky became President of Ukraine while Trump was in office, Putin could not make a move against Ukraine. After the election Trump lost Putin began building up military along Russia Ukraine. Most likely Putin told Biden long ago that he was taking Ukraine.  Biden with his memory lapses forgot to tell Zelensky to bend over the Russians are coming.

Quote from: Hobby on Mar 19, 2022, 09:19 PM... Most likely Putin told Biden long ago that he was taking Ukraine.  Biden with his memory lapses forgot to tell Zelensky to bend over the Russians are coming.

Ukraine initially downplayed "apocalyptic predictions" of a potential Russian invasion, after US officials sounded dire warnings that Putin had stepped up its preparations for a major incursion.

"The United States intelligence agencies unearthed Russia's war plans. They accurately assessed President Vladimir V. Putin's intentions and, through strategic public releases of information, complicated his efforts to create a pretext to send his armed forces into Ukraine. They got the timing of his invasion right almost to the hour. Stripping away any element of surprise"

"The American intelligence strengthened President Biden's hand in bringing the trans-Atlantic alliance into a unified front against Moscow. It provided time to prepare waves of sanctions and other steps to impose a cost on Russia, dispatch troops to bolster NATO allies and move Americans out of harm's way." Link

Putin has really stepped in it. The problem is what is he going to do now? Even if he takes Ukraine he has lost. Any Russian with education and means to escape is leaving Russia. Brain drain. Their economy has always sucked. Russia lost the cold war because it could not keep up economically. And in less than a month the world has seen Russia's military might as a fraud. Nukes...they have that...or is that another pack of lies fed to the world and the Russian people? For some unknown reason, I believe China is more credible than Russia. And the Russian-China alliance, really? that history of conflict dates back into prehistory.

Quote from: Tuscano on Mar 20, 2022, 05:13 PM... I believe China is more credible than Russia. And the Russian-China alliance, really? that history of conflict dates back into prehistory.

You make a good point.

The China Russian alliance is bolstered by both being authoritarian regimes and they both want to see USA with Western influence held in check. 

Yet, China wants to be cautious about upsetting trade with the West which I believe is about 10 times that of Russia.

Putin should be convicted of war crimes.

Quote from: bladegunner on Mar 20, 2022, 06:02 PMPutin should be convicted of war crimes.

You are not alone in that thought.

BBC News

Quote from: bladegunner on Mar 20, 2022, 06:02 PMPutin should be convicted of war crimes.

Let's see someone go arrest him!  Did you know the US does not recognize the world criminal court for Americans? Russia and China don't.  ICC issue a ruling for Russia to withdraw troops from Ukraine, Putin flipped them the bird and stepped up the invasion.

Quote from: Hobby on Mar 19, 2022, 09:19 PMI don't think that matters. After the USSR fell which Ukraine was part of all the predecessors before Zelensky were loyal to Moscow. Zelensky probably told Putin to go to hell and refused to be Putin's puppet. Zelensky became President of Ukraine while Trump was in office, Putin could not make a move against Ukraine. After the election Trump lost Putin began building up military along Russia Ukraine. Most likely Putin told Biden long ago that he was taking Ukraine.  Biden with his memory lapses forgot to tell Zelensky to bend over the Russians are coming.

I had a thought... let us go back further to Patton.  Patton wanted to pursue those Commie Bastards, said he could take Russia.  Just imagine the world today had Patton been allowed to take down Russia and plant the American flag there. The US most likely dominate the world. Patton predicted exactly what the US would face if we did not confront the Russians.

want to read more of patton. california boy.

Quote from: Hobby on Mar 20, 2022, 07:00 PMI had a thought... let us go back further to Patton.  Patton wanted to pursue those Commie Bastards, said he could take Russia.  Just imagine the world today had Patton been allowed to take down Russia and plant the American flag there. The US most likely dominate the world. Patton predicted exactly what the US would face if we did not confront the Russians.

General Patton on Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxAIE9TbGyk

Seems to me that US intelligence has been top notch during this crisis.  Early on, the US seemed to be predicting every move days prior to the event happening. That alone had to be very upsetting to Putin.

One thing we all need to realize too is that we are only hearing about what leaks or what we are told.  I sure hope that we are moving jets to Ukraine, but we are not telling anyone. Same with other weapon systems.  None of that info needs to be public knowledge.  Just do it...

Quote from: zep on Mar 21, 2022, 08:35 AMSeems to me that US intelligence has been top-notch during this crisis.  Early on, the US seemed to be predicting every move days prior to the event happening. That alone had to be very upsetting to Putin.

One thing we all need to realize too is that we are only hearing about what leaks or what we are told.  I sure hope that we are moving jets to Ukraine, but we are not telling anyone. Same with other weapon systems.  None of that info needs to be public knowledge.  Just do it...

GERMANY has MOVED! All ships to the Baltic states! It has been reported Russia is moving special forces in. It would be hard to believe American Black Ops are not nearby. Is Russia desperate? Hypersonic weapons that can travel most anywhere? being used in Ukraine??? Do they even work as hyped?