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I have been reading that illegal immigration helps to grow our economy faster.  I think perhaps under normal circumstances this might be true.  However with the record setting millions of illegals cost the taxpayers billions of dollars each year IMO offsets any gains.

 I do agree with Harris and Walz that Congress can fix the problem and needs to fix it instead of making the illegal crisis at the border  a political issue.  Putting bandaid on it doesn't work.  As we saw Trump put a bandaid on asylum seekers to have Biden come along and rip it off. Congress knows the border is out of control but they won't come together to fix it.

Here's the latest numbers with the executive order done in June. Pay attention the meaning of encounters, such as, can mean the same person 10 times. That's why I never believed the 30 million a year came in.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/10/01/migrant-encounters-at-u-s-mexico-border-have-fallen-sharply-in-2024/#:~:text=Authorities%20in%20Mexico%20have%20stepped,and%20remain%20in%20the%20country.
good info on the numbers and what they mean
https://theconversation.com/why-the-number-of-encounters-at-the-southern-u-s-border-does-not-mean-what-the-gop-says-it-means-191144

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 17, 2024, 02:25 PMI have been reading that illegal immigration helps to grow our economy faster.  I think perhaps under normal circumstances this might be true.  However with the record setting millions of illegals cost the taxpayers billions of dollars each year IMO offsets any gains.

 I do agree with Harris and Walz that Congress can fix the problem and needs to fix it instead of making the illegal crisis at the border  a political issue.  Putting bandaid on it doesn't work.  As we saw Trump put a bandaid on asylum seekers to have Biden come along and rip it off. Congress knows the border is out of control but they won't come together to fix it.

Illegal immigration isn't the problem.

HIRING illegal immigrants is. Stop hiring them, no problem, right? They can't mooch off of the government as they have no ids, they can't get jobs so they can't take them away from US citizens who wouldn't do the jobs for the money the people who are illegally hiring them to do, so good there too.

yes AND no.  How about that!

Interesting take.....


Still More Room to Grow: Immigrants Can Reverse the U.S. Population Decline and its Economic Consequences

January 29, 2024

Arturo Castellanos Canales

Introduction

In 2024, the United States continues to face significant demographic challenges. Propelled by falling birth rates, the U.S. population is rapidly aging and steadily declining. In turn, the country is experiencing economic and social pressures caused by labor shortages. Fortunately for the United States, the regular influx of working-age immigrants has helped the U.S. slightly alleviate this challenge. However, the country must increase its annual immigration levels to reach its full potential.

In "Room to Grow," a 2021 white paper, the National Immigration Forum proposed a methodology that showed that the country needed a 37% increase in net immigration levels over those projected for fiscal year 2020 (approximately 370,000 additional immigrants a year) to prevent the U.S. from falling into demographic deficit and socioeconomic decline.



My opinion, lets fix immigration, get a path to citizenship and get our population growing again.  A growing population results in a booming economy...

When the Irish arrived, our economy boomed.
When the Germans came, our economy boomed
When the Italians showed up, our economy boomed
Same with Hmongs, Vietnamese, Cambodians

They all  arrived with low education levels, very poor and lacked skills.  They eventually assimilated into America and became the backbone of our nation's labor force.   We can do that again with those coming from south of the border.   Just got to get rid of this fear and hate of "different people"

Quote from: Blkfyre on Oct 17, 2024, 03:34 PMIllegal immigration isn't the problem.

HIRING illegal
immigrants is. Stop hiring them, no problem, right? They can't mooch off of the government as they have no ids, they can't get jobs
so they can't take them away from US citizens who wouldn't do the jobs for the money the people who are illegally hiring them to do, so good there too.

Oh really blame it on employers... give me a break.  First of all there are more illegals than jobs.  As automation advances jobs for illegals will decline as the job is taken by automation.  Farming is a good example. It use to take tens of thousands of workers to harvest crops by hand.  Now machines do it faster and cheaper.  A lot of manufacturing businesses returning to US setup automation which puts thousands out of work. Illegal hiring... if illegals can find work legal or illegal that's better than them turning to crime.

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 17, 2024, 08:13 PMOh really blame it on employers... give me a break.  First of all there are more illegals than jobs.  As automation advances jobs for illegals will decline as the job is taken by automation.  Farming is a good example. It use to take tens of thousands of workers to harvest crops by hand.  Now machines do it faster and cheaper.  A lot of manufacturing businesses returning to US setup automation which puts thousands out of work. Illegal hiring... if illegals can find work legal or illegal that's better than them turning to crime.

Yes, blame it on the employers. Trump says "THEY ARE COMING FOR YOUR JOBS!"

But, how can they come for your jobs unless the employers are giving them the jobs???

Quote from: Blkfyre on Oct 17, 2024, 09:14 PMYes, blame it on the employers. Trump says "THEY ARE COMING FOR YOUR JOBS!"

But, how can they come for your jobs unless the employers are giving them the jobs???

You are going by what Trump says to defend your blaming employers... LMAO.

You say Trump lies and you are right but he says something you think helps you...you believe him.  They aren't coming to take away jobs.  Yes they want to get away from the corrupt places they come from.  I don't have any issues with anyone wanting to improve the safety and wealth of their family.  My problem is the US is not set up to handle the masses entering.

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 17, 2024, 09:55 PMYou are going by what Trump says to defend your blaming employers... LMAO.

You say Trump lies and you are right but he says something you think helps you...you believe him.  They aren't coming to take away jobs.  Yes they want to get away from the corrupt places they come from.  I don't have any issues with anyone wanting to improve the safety and wealth of their family.  My problem is the US is not set up to handle the masses entering.

What exactly do we have to be set up for? They are illegal, so they can't get any services from the government. Anything they get, they either get from charities or they work for it, right?

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 17, 2024, 09:55 PMYou are going by what Trump says to defend your blaming employers... LMAO.

You say Trump lies and you are right but he says something you think helps you...you believe him.  They aren't coming to take away jobs.  Yes they want to get away from the corrupt places they come from.  I don't have any issues with anyone wanting to improve the safety and wealth of their family.  My problem is the US is not set up to handle the masses entering.

guess you didn't read about what the numbers are. there isn't masses entering. if 30 million a year are coming in, where are they. that the population of California

Quote from: Blkfyre on Oct 17, 2024, 09:14 PMYes, blame it on the employers. Trump says "THEY ARE COMING FOR YOUR JOBS!"

But, how can they come for your jobs unless the employers are giving them the jobs???

Trump doesn't think things through that far.

We previously discussed the lack of holding employers responsible.
https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=22327
Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. This act introduced civil and criminal penalties to employers who knowingly hired undocumented immigrants or individuals unauthorized to work in the U.S.

Analogous to arresting "Johns" through prostitution stings to reduce the incidence of prostitution. Except that they are not arresting employers for hiring illegal immigrants.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Oct 18, 2024, 01:11 AMWhat exactly do we have to be set up for? They are illegal, so they can't get any services from the government. Anything they get, they either get from charities or they work for it, right?

What the fuck you talking about? They can get state services welfare and medical if they have a child born in the US

Quote from: Blkfyre on Oct 17, 2024, 03:34 PMIllegal immigration isn't the problem.

HIRING illegal immigrants is. Stop hiring them, no problem, right? They can't mooch off of the government as they have no ids, they can't get jobs so they can't take them away from US citizens who wouldn't do the jobs for the money the people who are illegally hiring them to do, so good there too.

LOL! The USA has TINs! Tax Indenfication Numbers! So, among "others"... criminals and "illegal" immigrants can pay taxes! TAXES that support Social Security! among other things.

The argument that illegals don't pay taxes is unfounded. Many actually use valid SSNs of another. The taxes are being paid!

Let me repeat and emphasize! Taxes are being PAID! Benefits of paying taxes, such as medical insurance, barely leak out

TINs! They are set up to collect taxes from criminals, third parties, "others," etc.

And the demographic is being ignored worldwide! Within developed nations, the population is decreasing! We need immigrants!

Think of the antiabortionist drive to force women to give birth! It is not only in the USA because the decline in birthrate is a threat to the establishment.

Quote from: Hobby on Oct 18, 2024, 08:19 PMWhat the fuck you talking about? They can get state services welfare and medical if they have a child born in the US

Their CHILD is getting supported not them. Are you saying they provision should be struck down?

And no, they can't get welfare: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/recipient/eligibility/non-citizen#:~:text=Only%20U.S.%20citizens%20and%20certain,students%20are%20generally%20not%20eligible.

"Only U.S. citizens and certain lawfully present non-citizens may receive SNAP benefits. SNAP is not and has never been available to undocumented non-citizens. Non-citizens like tourists and students are generally not eligible."

LEGAL immigrants can get servers but not illegal ones

Quote from: CaptainMorgan on Oct 20, 2024, 07:56 PMKeep drinking the Kool aid.
Illegal immigrants are being supported by OUR tax dollar and FEMA has this documented.
Lubricous as Illegals can not vote. Their is a State that cleaned up their rosters by taking those not qualified to vote off the rosters. D.O.J. is has a lawsuit against  the state for doing this. Yeah, D.O.J. not supporting laws on the books..

Cool, please link to where a reputable news source/the government is reporting that. Because as you saw, my link came from the government.