Fantasy Saloon Pussy Good, Nevada

One of the really positive things about the election is the Peaceful Transfer Of Power. It would appear that the majority of voters were not concerned about it, or saw it as a potential issue. It has been characterized as the true hallmark of our democracy. I think perhaps most Americans assume that it is there due to historical practice.

FULL SPEECH: President Biden on election results, TRANSFER OF POWER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDi-2zIZ22I
7:51 minutes.
"The people vote and choose their own leaders, and they do it peacefully. And we're in a democracy. The will of the people always prevails."

"I spoke with president elect Trump to congratulate him on his victory, and I assured him that I direct my entire administration to work with his team to ensure a peaceful and orderly transition. That's what the American people deserve."

"I know for some people, it's a time for victory to state the obvious. For others, it's a time of loss. Campaigns are contest of competing visions. A country chooses one or the other. We accept the choice the country made. I've said many times, you can't love your country only when you win. You can't love your neighbor only when you agree."...something I hope we can do no matter who you voted for to see each other not as adversaries but as fellow Americans bring down the temperature."

"I also hope we can lay to rest the question about the Integrity of the American electoral system it is honest it is fair and it is transparent and it can be trusted win or lose I also hope we can restore the respect for all our election workers who busted their necks and took risks at the outset we should thank them thank them for Staffing voting sites counting the votes protecting the very Integrity of the election many of them are volunteers who do it simply out of love for their country and as they did as they did their Duty as Citizens I will do my duty as president I'll fulfill my oath and I will honor the constitution on January 20th we'll have a peaceful transfer of power."

Quote from: HighStepper on Nov 07, 2024, 10:41 AMOne of the really positive things about the election is the Peaceful Transfer Of Power. It would appear that the majority of voters were not concerned about it, or saw it as a potential issue. It has been characterized as the true hallmark of our democracy. I think perhaps most Americans assume that it is there due to historical practice.

I was thinking about this yesterday. You know the world is upside down when the only reason we don't have to worry about a peaceful transfer of power is that the candidate who threatened it won the election.

Quote from: bats on Nov 07, 2024, 11:40 AMI was thinking about this yesterday. You know the world is upside down when the only reason we don't have to worry about a peaceful transfer of power is that the candidate who threatened it won the election.

Excellent point.

What are your thoughts regarding

Quote from: bligslick on Nov 07, 2024, 04:37 PMWhat are your thoughts regarding...youtube video

Video length 1:10 minutes. Representative Jamie Raskin discusses justification for Congress not certifying Trump if he is elected. "We are not going to let him be inaugurated."

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Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution gives Congress the authority to bar public officials who took an oath of allegiance to the U.S. Constitution from holding office if they "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the Constitution.

So, Raskin is right IF Trump participated in an insurrection. While the discussion may have pedagogical value it has little practical value.

This has been discussed for a couple of years, but has not gotten any traction.

Quote from: HighStepper on Nov 07, 2024, 05:30 PMVideo length 1:10 minutes. Representative Jamie Raskin discusses justification for Congress not certifying Trump if he is elected. "We are not going to let him be inaugurated."

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Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution gives Congress the authority to bar public officials who took an oath of allegiance to the U.S. Constitution from holding office if they "engaged in insurrection or rebellion" against the Constitution.

So, Raskin is right. While the discussion may have pedagogical value it has little practical value.

This has been discussed for a couple of years, but has not gotten any traction.

This is part of the problem in this country. Someone posts a 1-minute clip from an hour-long video, and people jump to conclusions that aren't warranted, even by the clip!

Raskin wasn't discussing disqualifying Trump if he had WON on Tuesday. He was talking about what might happen if Trump were to have LOST this election. The clip is misleading, but only if viewers make certain assumptions that the person who posted it to YouTube just five days ago apparently hoped they would make.

Some background: That panel discussion, which took place this past February, was about a long-term project to amend the Constitution so that it provides an affirmative right to vote for every U.S. citizen. (Currently, there is no such right, and that's part of why the Supreme Court was able to rationalize, after the 2000 election, that it could stop the count in Florida.)

Raskin's comment, which you can see in full context in the video linked below, was about the Supreme Court's failure to disqualify Trump from holding future office despite what Section 3 of the 14th Amendment says about engaging in insurrection or rebellion against the U.S. Constitution. Because the Court failed, Raskin blamed the Court for the potential problems that would occur if Trump LOST.

https://www.youtube.com/live/3If_fz8GatQ?si=pqW29HY26KmPnDXL

Thank you for giving your thoughts. I didn't conclude anything, I was hoping to hear other's thoughts, which you provided. If I have to watch an hour long video to retort... I'd rather just accept your version.

Quote from: bligslick on Nov 07, 2024, 06:16 PMThank you for giving your thoughts. I didn't conclude anything, I was hoping to hear other's thoughts, which you provided. If I have to watch an hour long video to retort... I'd rather just accept your version.

Really? You post a deliberately misleading video so someone else can gather the full context and tell you what it was about?

If you're going to post the video, why not offer a comment of your own? Or just don't post it.

My apologies. HighStepper's reply makes clear that I was completely wrong about the meaning of Raskin's comments. I accused you of not looking at the full context, but I misread that context because I was so damn sure Raskin wouldn't have been suggesting such a thing. 

I took your posting of the video to be as a sincere interest in wanting a genuine response of my thoughts on the topic. I did not think it necessary to delve into the weeds.  Especially since the video you posted was by The Thinking Conservative,  on fact check is an extreme Right media source of low credibility.

The Constitution Prohibits Trump From Ever Being President Again. By J. Michael Luttig and Laurence H. Tribe
...embodied in the amendment's often-overlooked Section 3, automatically excludes from future office and position of power in the United States government—and also from any equivalent office and position of power in the sovereign states and their subdivisions—any person who has taken an oath to support and defend our Constitution and thereafter rebels against that sacred charter, either through overt insurrection or by giving aid or comfort to the Constitution's enemies. Link

Previous discussion on this topic in this forum https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=17664 and https://fantasysaloon.com/index.php?msg=17654 It should be noted that The Supreme Court did NOT honor Trump's request to find that he was not an insurrectionist. Lower courts have made findings that Trump engaged in insurrection. However, this was before the Supreme Court made its Presidential immunity findings.

Murray and other legal scholars say that, absent clear guidance from the Supreme Court, a Trump win could lead to a constitutional crisis in Congress. Democrats would have to choose between confirming a winner many of them believe is ineligible and defying the will of voters who elected him. Their choice could be decisive: As their victory in a House special election in New York last week demonstrated, Democrats have a serious chance of winning a majority in Congress in November, even if Trump recaptures the presidency on the same day. If that happens, they could have the votes to prevent him from taking office.Link

Again, nice debate in academia, no traction in the real world.

HS, I missed the mark with my comments. I've been frustrated with the election result for two days straight, and I let my frustration get the better of me before I commented.

I'm going to take a break from commenting.

Quote from: bats on Nov 07, 2024, 06:05 PMThis is part of the problem in this country. Someone posts a 1-minute clip from an hour-long video, and people jump to conclusions that aren't warranted, even by the clip!

Raskin wasn't discussing disqualifying Trump if he had WON on Tuesday. He was talking about what might happen if Trump were to have LOST this election. The clip is misleading, but only if viewers make certain assumptions that the person who posted it to YouTube just five days ago apparently hoped they would make.

Some background: That panel discussion, which took place this past February, was about a long-term project to amend the Constitution so that it provides an affirmative right to vote for every U.S. citizen. (Currently, there is no such right, and that's part of why the Supreme Court was able to rationalize, after the 2000 election, that it could stop the count in Florida.)

No, you did not miss the mark. You hit the mark better than I did. You commented on the veracity of the video. Where I did not question comments attributed to Raskin, but rather only addressed the CONCEPT.

I just did a fact check. "Social media users have spread a quote attributed to Democratic Rep. Jamie Raskin, claiming he said "we won't be certifying the election" if former President Donald Trump wins. Raskin responded, saying the quote is "100% fabricated" and that "America is having a free and fair election and Congress will certify the winner." The origin of the posts appears to be a misleading account of Raskin's comments in February." Link