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Next we are annexing Gaza!  Yipppeeee!  Once developed it could be a great vacation destination (it has Mediterranean shoreline) complete with Trump hotels.

Quote from: dogwalker on Feb 04, 2025, 07:41 PMNext we are annexing Gaza!  Yipppeeee!  Once developed it could be a great vacation destination (it has Mediterranean shoreline) complete with Trump hotels.

It's okay because Trump said today that everyone he's spoken to thinks it's a great idea.

Everyone = Jared Kushner who proposed that idea many months ago.  Another way to enrich themselves.  Bitcoins aren't enough.

In 2005 Israel withdrew all military installations and removed over 9000 Israeli citizens living in the Gaza Strip, giving it over to the Palestinians. In 2006 Hamas won election and took control of the Gaza Strip. Did they build a Mediterranean "Rivera" type resort? No!  Did they build agricultural/industrial enterprises? No! Did they build sea ports of imports/exports? No! What did they build? They built military infrastructure like the tunnels and fortifications to fire missiles at Israel.

Since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 the suronding Arab nations did not want Palestinians in their countries. The argument against it, was that Palestinians cause chaos and trouble. They for sure don't want them in their countries now.

Quote from: HighStepper on Feb 05, 2025, 05:16 PMIn 2005 Israel withdrew all military installations and removed over 9000 Israeli citizens living in the Gaza Strip, giving it over to the Palestinians. In 2006 Hamas won election and took control of the Gaza Strip. Did they build a Mediterranean "Rivera" type resort? No!  Did they build agricultural/industrial enterprises? No! Did they build sea ports of imports/exports? No! What did they build? They built military infrastructure like the tunnels and fortifications to fire missiles at Israel.

Since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 the suronding Arab nations did not want Palestinians in their countries. The argument against it, was that Palestinians cause chaos and trouble. They for sure don't want them in their countries now.

Things change.  They may not want them in their countries but Trump can be persuasive when he really wants something. A two state existence will never work their would be always be fighting. Palestinians can't survive in Gaza now.  The only option is to move them out to neighboring countries at least temporarily. Hamas is finished and Iran is next.

Quote from: Hobby on Feb 05, 2025, 06:22 PMThings change.  They may not want them in their countries but Trump can be persuasive when he really wants something. A two state existence will never work their would be always be fighting. Palestinians can't survive in Gaza now.  The only option is to move them out to neighboring countries at least temporarily. Hamas is finished and Iran is next.

Hamas is still in charge and growing in strengh.

The Arab nations would probably tell Trump to take the Gaza Palestinians into the U.S. "temporarily." As stated above the Arab nations have never wanted them. Especially not now since the Palestinians are replete with terrorist.

We aren't annexing Gaza.  Trump tosses out comments he is thinking and ideas out there and the left makes fools out of themselves by responding to them.  This is how Trump operates...  Trump would need congress to approve any military action involving the United  States.  That's not going to happen.

Quote from: Hobby on Feb 05, 2025, 06:43 PMWe aren't annexing Gaza.  Trump tosses out comments he is thinking and ideas out there and the left makes fools out of themselves by responding to them.  This is how Trump operates...  Trump would need congress to approve any military action involving the United  States.  That's not going to happen.

The last time Congress authorized military action was in 2002, but that hasn't stopped presidents from taking action on their own. And with the current Congress I don't think Trump would even face much pushback.

Doesn't mean it will happen. I just don't believe Congress would be what stops it.

Quote from: Hobby on Feb 05, 2025, 06:43 PMWe aren't annexing Gaza.  Trump tosses out comments he is thinking and ideas out there and the left makes fools out of themselves by responding to them.  This is how Trump operates...  Trump would need congress to approve any military action involving the United  States.  That's not going to happen.

Like I said before I eat my popcorn and watch the circus. However, the problem with Trump's crazy talk about Gaza causes mistrust among the Arab coalition we have been buiding to degrade Iran and it's terrorist proxies. Iran is loving Trump's crazy talk.

So....I have traveled in that part of the world and can shed light based on what I observed

It is true the Gazans did not develop Gaza after 2006. However one of the main reasons for that is Gaza is an OCCUPIED TERRITORY of Israel.  It is not an independent country.  Even after Israel withdrew in 2006 they still had a lot to say about what happens there.  The same is true for the West Bank.  What I saw is that the average Palestinian standard of living is more than 20 fold less than it is in Israel and IMO Israel keeps it that way on purpose and likes it that way.  So the reason Gaza and the West Bank did not develop is Israel did not allow them (or other Arab countries) to do so.  The contrasts between how Israelis and Palestinians live when I was there (2022) are rather extreme.  Israel is a modern country that is doing well, somewhat similar to countries in Europe.  The West Bank is a poverty-stricken DUMP. Just as one stark example a hospital in Israel looks like those in the US. In the West Bank there really are no hospitals.  At best they have clinics......very dumpy ones that one might mistake for a slum house instead of a clinic.  Can Palestinians go to Israel for medical treatment?  ......very difficult.  Israel makes it difficult....uhh because Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and therefore have few rights in Israel.  Trump is right----"who would want to live there?"

So.....when there are such extremes and Israel does not allow Palestine to develop what is one outcome?  Exactly what has happened.  That is why as nutty as it sounds I happen to agree with Trump's basic idea except let Palestinians stay and get the advantage of a re-developed Gaza and West Bank.  People that are educated, rich, have good schools, jobs, hospitals, etc. (none of which most Palestinians have had since 1948) generally are not violent or become terrorists.  Israel will not even allow Palestinians to have passports so they travel with great difficulty to limited countries using other documents.  Most Palestinians are NOT Israeli citizens.  They have no country.

Another thing I can address is whether Jordan or Egypt (I have been to both) would take Palestinians if they are forced out of Gaza and the West Bank and what has been said is true.  In Jordan in particular something like 25% of their population consists of Palestinians that fled there in prior wars.  Jordanians feel those Palestinians are putting too much strain on social welfare, taking too many jobs, and so on----all the usual arguments against mass numbers of migrants. As such they definitely do not want more Palestinians and in fact prefer those that are there to go somewhere else.  Similar in Egypt.  I think the richer Arab countries should consider taking the Palestinians if it comes to that.  First they can easily afford them.  Second many of those countries depend on migrant labor anyway and one plus is Palestinians, unlike other migrants in those countries (often from Africa, India), would speak Arabic.

Quote from: dogwalker on Feb 05, 2025, 08:12 PMSo.....when there are such extremes and Israel does not allow Palestine to develop what is one outcome?  Exactly what has happened.  That is why as nutty as it sounds I happen to agree with Trump's basic idea except let Palestinians stay and get the advantage of a re-developed Gaza and West Bank.  People that are educated, rich, have good schools, jobs, hospitals, etc. (none of which most Palestinians have had since 1948) generally are not violent or become terrorists.  Israel will not even allow Palestinians to have passports so they travel with great difficulty to limited countries using other documents.  Most Palestinians are NOT Israeli citizens.  They have no country.

That's such a long-term project. I'm not imaginative enough to see how it could happen. It would require completely different governments for both peoples, who would also have to somehow be conciliatory toward each other. 

Some of the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank by the Israelis has been deplorable. But, back to Gaza when Hamas took over. Israel imposing a blockade on the Gaza Strip to restrict the importation of certain construction materials, chemicals, equipment, etc. that could be used for military purposes from entering Gaza which could have been used for for industry. So in that sense it could be said that Israel kept them from developing.

The Hamas Charter explicitly stated the goal of destroying Israel. " It also called for the establishment of an Islamic state in all of former Palestine and rejected any peaceful solutions or coexistence with Israel.  Hamas has been frequently launching missiles into Israel since 2001. So, yeah the blockade rather than fostering the development of industry that would have benefited the people.

FYI Israel just released 23 Palestinian children. 300 still in Prison, An estimated 10,000 Palestinian children have been held in Israeli military detention over the past 20 years.