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Quote from: bats on Jun 16, 2022, 04:13 PMSo you're unaware of all the data proving they do work?

No, they don't prevent all disease or all infection, but no vaccine has ever done that and no expert has ever said that about the Covid vaccines. But both vaccines and masks have been proven to confer excellent protection. There is no doubt about this in the mind of any expert.

And you are aware of all the data showing that they do not work.
Data shows lockdowns, mask wearing, and vaccines were not needed.
Follow the true science not what paid off Falsie and cronies say.
And you have noticed how Falsie back flips.. Flip Flops to whatever fits the agenda at the time.

Here's a scientist who says the lockdowns and mass vaccinations didn't work...

Quote from: Bande on Jun 16, 2022, 05:59 PMAnd you are aware of all the data showing that they do not work.
Data shows lockdowns, mask wearing, and vaccines were not needed.
Follow the true science not what paid off Falsie and cronies say.
And you have noticed how Falsie back flips.. Flip Flops to whatever fits the agenda at the time.

There are always some fringe characters who take a view that's contrary to the established science, but there is no credible expert saying the vaccines don't work. Any claim that they don't work is pure bullshit.

The efficacy of lockdowns is worthy of discussion, but is that even happening anywhere in the U.S. anymore?

Quote from: Hobby on Jun 16, 2022, 03:15 PMWo
Words right out of his mouth, wonder how blkfyr will explain this or maybe he is speechless...LOL

When the Pfiser vaccine first came out, they stated it was 80+ percent affective. By ANY REASONABLE MEASURE 80+% is a high measure of protection considering the yearly flu shot is only somewhere in the 50% range.

I don't have to twist things to prove it. Look up any literature and you will see it.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Jun 16, 2022, 08:12 PMWhen the Pfiser vaccine first came out, they stated it was 80+ percent affective. By ANY REASONABLE MEASURE 80+% is a high measure of protection considering the yearly flu shot is only somewhere in the 50% range.

I don't have to twist things to prove it. Look up any literature and you will see it.

You contested Bande about Fauci and I posted a video where he said the vaccine will protect you. Fauci has had all the shots and he still got covid.  We aren't talking about the vaccine here we are talking about what the leading expert said. Trump had covid before the vaccine and recovered. Since Biden took office there have been higher numbers of infection and deaths and Biden has had more to work with than Trump had. Most people who get infected by Covid may have little to no symptoms and some don't even know they had covid.  So it is difficult to know just how effective the vaccines really are. 

Just how would Pfizer know how effective thier vaccine was when it had no past data to back up the claim?  How would they know that the vaccinated person had not been vaccinated would not have done any better or any worse?

Quote from: Hobby on Jun 16, 2022, 08:47 PMYou contested Bande about Fauci and I posted a video where he said the vaccine will protect you. Fauci has had all the shots and he still got covid.  We aren't talking about the vaccine here we are talking about what the leading expert said. Trump had covid before the vaccine and recovered. Since Biden took office there have been higher numbers of infection and deaths and Biden has had more to work with than Trump had. Most people who get infected by Covid may have little to no symptoms and some don't even know they had covid.  So it is difficult to know just how effective the vaccines really are. 

Just how would Pfizer know how effective thier vaccine was when it had no past data to back up the claim?  How would they know that the vaccinated person had not been vaccinated would not have done any better or any worse?

Because they tested it. As with ANY DRUG there were tests. And how do I know they treated it before it was released?  That would be because I am part of a long term study that Stanford is doing. I got my shot months before it was released to the public and they will be following along with me with blood tests for another year. Stanford was only one of the sites doing testing and they had thousands of testers.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Jun 16, 2022, 09:39 PMBecause they tested it. As with ANY DRUG there were tests. And how do I know they treated it before it was released?  That would be because I am part of a long term study that Stanford is doing. I got my shot months before it was released to the public and they will be following along with me with blood tests for another year. Stanford was only one of the sites doing testing and they had thousands of testers.

Bull Shit...  Unless you had covid before and then got vaccinated and then exposed how would you know if it was the vaccine or the natural immunity... you couldn't know.  You may fair just as good without the vaccine. Takes years of study and data to know just how effective a treatment is. In your study group was it a double blind study meaning there would be those not given the vaccine to compare with? And those that got the vaccine where they exposed to covid?

So if it is long term then the results of the trial are not known to make any claims....

Quote from: Hobby on Jun 16, 2022, 08:47 PMYou contested Bande about Fauci and I posted a video where he said the vaccine will protect you. Fauci has had all the shots and he still got covid.  We aren't talking about the vaccine here we are talking about what the leading expert said. Trump had covid before the vaccine and recovered. Since Biden took office there have been higher numbers of infection and deaths and Biden has had more to work with than Trump had. Most people who get infected by Covid may have little to no symptoms and some don't even know they had covid.  So it is difficult to know just how effective the vaccines really are. 

Just how would Pfizer know how effective thier vaccine was when it had no past data to back up the claim?  How would they know that the vaccinated person had not been vaccinated would not have done any better or any worse?

They would know the same as they do with ANY other drug. They send the results of their testing will to the government and the government confirms their findings and assigns the efficacy. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/development-approval-process-drugs

Then other leading scientific agencies analyzed the real world data to determine if what they said was correct and it was https://www.science.org/content/article/question-choices-pfizer-vaccine-leader-confronting-new-coronavirus-variants

In addition I am part of a long term study. I, along with thousands of others just at the Stanford site alone (and that was only one site of MANY across the country) got the shot months before it was released to the public way back when Trump was in office and before he got his, and get monthly blood tests and physicals so they can check the long term efficacy. I received not only the shot but the booster as well before the general public agsin so they could test and get that percentage figured out. I will be on the study for at least another year so they can do as any biotech company does.

So yes, there is plenty of evidence that it did as Faucci said and provided good protection, (NOT complete immunity, which only conspiracy theorists and anti-vax people say to whip the gullible into a frenzy) to the virus and the scientific community at large agrees. 

Quote from: Hobby on Jun 16, 2022, 09:47 PMBull Shit...  Unless you had covid before and then got vaccinated and then exposed how would you know if it was the vaccine or the natural immunity... you couldn't know.  You may fair just as good without the vaccine. Takes years of study and data to know just how effective a treatment is. In your study group was it a double blind study meaning there would be those not given the vaccine to compare with? And those that got the vaccine where they exposed to covid?

So if it is long term then the results of the trial are not known to make any claims....

Yes it was double blind. Nobody knew who got the drug and who got the placebo. I didn't know until it became time to take the booster at which point they unblinded the study as the point at which having the results be hidden had past

Supposedly almost everyone has been infected.  People like him are tested very often so it's more likely a positive will be found.  I say: so what.  He's not my grandfather, friend, boss, etc.  Therefore I don't care whether he has COVID or not.  However it seems some are trying to TWIST it into something it's not.  Ohhh looky there.....the guy that preached about COVID got it. Isn't that funny?   The world isn't perfect.  Get over it.

Quote from: Blkfyre on Jun 17, 2022, 08:43 AMYes it was double blind. Nobody knew who got the drug and who got the placebo. I didn't know until it became time to take the booster at which point they unblinded the study as the point at which having the results be hidden had past

what were the results of the trial study... how many unvax got covid vs vax?

I think we are past the political rhetoric. If you don't want to get a vaccine, then don't get one. It is as simple as that.
 
Vaccines are not 100% guaranteed that you won't get COVID. The studies show that vaccines keep people out of the hospitals and the morgues.  I've had my vaccine shots and booster. I will keep getting boosters when recommended. I have a family member that is immune compromised so it is important to me that I keep vaccinated. My choice.

Quote from: Hobby on Jun 17, 2022, 08:56 AMwhat were the results of the trial study... how many unvax got covid vs vax?

The study is still ongoing as I said, it is a three-year long-term study, so the results won't be made public until then, but they report to the FDA monthly. They only unblinded us because as people on here have said, people should have the right to take the vaccine if they wanted, so people were given the option to know their blind status in case they wanted to take the booster. Since it was blinded they couldn't give you the booster because they didn't know, only the study coordinator. Those who had the placebo were given the option to take the real shot and then in a few months the booster if they wanted, all on the Study's dime.

They made provisions for study participants who did get Covid. If you thought you had it they would send a tech to your house to both rapid and regular test you. If your results came back positive they put you into a different study for those who had been infected to track you, they also paid you a stipend to do so.

Quote from: bats on Jun 16, 2022, 06:42 PMThere are always some fringe characters who take a view that's contrary to the established science, but there is no credible expert saying the vaccines don't work. Any claim that they don't work is pure bullshit.

The efficacy of lockdowns is worthy of discussion, but is that even happening anywhere in the U.S. anymore?

so you go by the word of someone who flip flops for the current agenda And has been paid off..
Falsie has been wrong and needs to be held accountable for his damage.