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Quote from: Hobby on May 25, 2022, 05:06 PMThe answer is not more legislation on guns that won't stop anything. Why are kids acting out in such a destructive manner to want to kill innocent people? What went wrong in their upbringing? No, I am not making excuses blaming the parents the kid should know right from wrong. And when I say kid, I consider an 18-year-old to still be a kid when they act out.

That person you consider to be a kid "acting out" was able to purchase the gun that was used in yesterday's shooting just because he was 18 years old. No waiting period, no background check. Just walked out of the store with two rifles and 375 rounds of ammo.

Modest gun control legislation could have prevented that.

Quote from: bats on May 25, 2022, 10:27 PMThat person you consider to be a kid "acting out" was able to purchase the gun that was used in yesterday's shooting just because he was 18 years old. No waiting period, no background check. Just walked out of the store with two rifles and 375 rounds of ammo.

Modest gun control legislation could have prevented that.

I can see raising the age limit to 21 as a start.

Quote from: Hobby on May 25, 2022, 04:51 PMHog Wash... We did not have mass shootings 50, 60 + years ago. What changed? Society has changed, with single parents, high divorce rates, both parents working, and drugs.  There was a time when one parent stayed home and took care of the home and the kids. Today's kids are often left alone unsupervised after school or all day when parents are out working! There was a time when you could spank your kid not anymore...

A quick answer to why we did not have mass shootings back then could be we didn't have AR15 type rifles back then.

The tower shooting at the University of Texas is the most horrific mass murder in the 60's that I recall. An expert marksman, former military, with a rifle killed 14 people. It took an hour and a half for police to subdue and kill him.

Drugs and alcohol have always been prevalent in our society, so much so the Eighteenth Amendment was passed, making it illegal to sell alcohol. Want to take the crime/profit out of drugs, decriminalize them.

Yes, in today's consumerism driven society with its high cost of living there is the need for the "two income family" to economically survive.

We also see nowadays the concept of non married people having children being normalized with "my baby momma" and "my baby daddy."

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Quote from: Hobby on May 26, 2022, 06:59 AMI can see raising the age limit to 21 as a start.

Did we just make a little progress? It's so foreign to me I'm not sure I recognize it when I see it. lol

Most of these psycho shooters are 18-20 so I also would be fine with 21 to buy any gun.

Here is what is being reported, Robb Elementry police officers were not at the school and the entrance was left unlocked. A gunman entered with no confrontation.  The school is supposed to have security and apparently, they did not that day.  Looks like lots of law suites are going to be filed against the school district. Anyway, it wasn't the gun that was the issue, it was the fact the school became lax on its security and someone with a gun got in. Guns don't have legs, they don't have brains, and they can't walk up to someone and shoot them! The kid did not have a criminal background nor mental issues that anyone knew. So if a background check was required the kid probably would have been able to buy the rifles anyway. Just can't know what is going to set someone off...

Yeah Uvalde is a small town with a small police force(no SWAT), they called for backup to the Sheriff dept and Texas Rangers but they are far away. The closest tactical unit was the Border Patrol but it took almost one hour for them to arrive, it was a Border Patrol agent who killed the shooter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/uvalde-texas-shooter-entered-school-undisrupted-through-unlocked-door-dps-official-says/ar-AAXLTmK

Guns are not the issue.
The issue is Mental Health.
One can pass whatever they want and it will stop nothing.
The responders to Robb Elementary was asked for thoughts on the issues here.
Overwhelming response was mental health. Mental health needs to be focused on.


Guns are not the issue..



Age limit of 18 is sufficient.
Difference between this age and the past is the past were taught to respect the firearm and Gun Safety.
Now days that seems not to be.
Remember the days when one could take firearms to school for classes. Gun classes.
Remember when it was common to have a rack on the back window of ones truck filled with Guns.
No real issues either.
Military one can enroll at the age of 18, in which they have access to all kinds of firearms.

Quote from: Bande on May 26, 2022, 05:32 PMGuns are not the issue.
The issue is Mental Health.
One can pass whatever they want and it will stop nothing.
The responders to Robb Elementary was asked for thoughts on the issues here.
Overwhelming response was mental health. Mental health needs to be focused on.


Guns are not the issue..



Age limit of 18 is sufficient.
Difference between this age and the past is the past were taught to respect the firearm and Gun Safety.
Now days that seems not to be.
Remember the days when one could take firearms to school for classes. Gun classes.
Remember when it was common to have a rack on the back window of ones truck filled with Guns.
No real issues either.
Military one can enroll at the age of 18, in which they have access to all kinds of firearms.

You've contradicted yourself in this post by saying, first, that the issue is mental health, and, second, blaming it on kids not being taught respect for firearms and gun safety. So, apparently, we're just throwing shit against the wall and seeing what might stick.

An attorney for the parents whose children were murdered in the Sandy Hook shooting 10 years ago said yesterday that his research shows that the difference in recent years is that the gun makers are actively marketing AR-15s to young men. Why would they do that? To make money, obviously.

Anyway, the result, according to him, was that whereas in 2005 about 100,000 AR-15s were sold in the U.S., by 2012 sales had ballooned to more than 2 million.

Seems like that might be a problem.

"Anyway, the result, according to him, was that whereas in 2005 about 100,000 AR-15s were sold in the U.S., by 2012 sales had ballooned to more than 2 million."

I don't doubt this. With this many AR-15s are enough to wage war on those that would try to take them. If you are going to put restrictions then put restrictions on the ammo, guns don't kill unless you hit the person over the head with it, but bullets sure will... I don't know if ammo is covered by the 2nd amendment.  I suppose people could make their own but not many know how.

People do the killing and not the gun?  Then why not raise the bar for use of a semi-automatic weapon or any weapon with a large magazine. Can't we make it a little harder for a whack job to kill so easily?  If hunting animals puts limits on the size of the magazine why can't we do the same for hunting people? 

Quote from: rooftop on May 26, 2022, 07:10 PMPeople do the killing and not the gun?  Then why not raise the bar for use of a semi-automatic weapon or any weapon with a large magazine. Can't we make it a little harder for a whack job to kill so easily?  If hunting animals puts limits on the size of the magazine why can't we do the same for hunting people? 

They put a size and ammo limit on rifles and shotguns to hunt animals to make it sporting. 

You can kill someone with a slingshot or a bow...

Quote from: Hobby on May 26, 2022, 06:28 PM"Anyway, the result, according to him, was that whereas in 2005 about 100,000 AR-15s were sold in the U.S., by 2012 sales had ballooned to more than 2 million."

I don't doubt this. With this many AR-15s are enough to wage war on those that would try to take them. If you are going to put restrictions then put restrictions on the ammo, guns don't kill unless you hit the person over the head with it, but bullets sure will... I don't know if ammo is covered by the 2nd amendment.  I suppose people could make their own but not many know how.

Thanks bats for the "bullet control" video.