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The Constitution makes no reference to abortion Alito wrote.

There is reference to abortion in the bible.

EDIT: There is NO reference to abortion in the bible.

Quote from: HighStepper on May 07, 2022, 10:04 PMThe Constitution makes no reference to abortion Alito wrote.

There is reference to abortion in the bible.

There is a reference that women have the right to abortion?  Where tell that might be?

Quote from: Hobby on May 07, 2022, 10:22 PMThere is a reference that women have the right to abortion?  Where tell that might be?

I miswrote. It should have been NO reference in the bible. The main point would be that there is no prohibition of abortion in the bible.

So in my VERY MUCH younger days, I was opposed to abortion. I knew so little! at the time. The first time I was confronted with my then view I was asked during an interview for a post-grad position about my view on abortion. I failed miserably because I really had none. The interviewer described a genetic condition that caused the affected to chew off their digits. He could have been making that up. But at the time I was too naive and accepted what he postulated as fact. Got me thinking.
Later over dinner with a couple we were friends with, the subject came up and I jumped in! Later my wife informed me the couple had decided on abortion when she became pregnant with a fourth child. They already couldn't afford the children they had and it had been a very difficult decision for them.
More and more I heard the other side. But the tipping point for me...was/is actually ridiculous!
So long ago I don't remember the details but it was some study of rodents. Should the environmental conditions become too severe, the pregnant rodents would not abort, but resorb their babies. Must be "God's will"...

Quote from: HighStepper on May 07, 2022, 10:37 PMI miswrote. It should have been NO reference in the bible. The main point would be that there is no prohibition of abortion in the bible.

Yes, there are references made in the bible concerning causing a woman to miscarry or harm an innocent child. There is a reference made to killing in the womb where the womb is the graveyard.

Old Testament laws are found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, based on Hebrew law in the Torah.

Mainstream Judaism sees the fetus as POTENTIAL LIFE.

There is a difference in the penalty for causing a woman to miscarriage (less severe) than killing a person.
If the woman's life is threatened then abortion is required.  I'm not familiar with the "grave in the womb."
While rare there are situations where the fetus dies in the womb and not born.

There are people that believe with all their heart and mind that they are saving the soul of innocent life.
Some even go so far as to believe that God will punish the land if abortions (evil) occur in the land.
I respect their religious belief and recognize their passion.

However, in a democracy NOT a theocracy there is a freedom of religion (also freedom from religion).
If Christians understood their own teachings, they would know that they are not to use civil/political power to advance their religious beliefs on others. 

Quote from: HighStepper on May 09, 2022, 01:37 PMOld Testament laws are found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, based on Hebrew law in the Torah.

Mainstream Judaism sees the fetus as POTENTIAL LIFE.

There is a difference in the penalty for causing a woman to miscarriage (less severe) than killing a person.
If the woman's life is threatened then abortion is required.  I'm not familiar with the "grave in the womb."


While rare there are situations where the fetus dies in the womb and not born.

There are people that believe with all their heart and mind that they are saving the soul of innocent life.
Some even go so far as to believe that God will punish the land if abortions (evil) occur in the land.
I respect their religious belief and recognize their passion.

However, in a democracy NOT a theocracy there is a freedom of religion (also freedom from religion).
If Christians understood their own teachings, they would know that they are not to use civil/political power to advance their religious beliefs on others. 

However, in a democracy NOT a theocracy there is freedom of religion (also freedom from religion).

This is not about religion or lack of although I would say nonbelievers find it easier to kill babies since they do not fear having to answer for their acts. Nothing will change if the Supreme Court overturns Roe in California.

Quote from: Hobby on May 09, 2022, 03:18 PMHowever, in a democracy NOT a theocracy there is freedom of religion (also freedom from religion).

This is not about religion or lack of although I would say nonbelievers find it easier to kill babies since they do not fear having to answer for their acts. Nothing will change if the Supreme Court overturns Roe in California.

You say that like we shouldn't care that things will change in other states. Over half the country will have changes: https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2021/10/26-states-are-certain-or-likely-ban-abortion-without-roe-heres-which-ones-and-why. I don't know why conservatives have a "Well, it's not affecting me, so why worry about it?" attitude all the time...

I used California as an example that's all. In case you didn't know I do not live in California.  Abortion will not be banned in all 50 states if Roe is overturned. States will have set laws as to when an abortion can be performed such as during 1st trimester or when a human heartbeat is detected.  I don't get why people in the United State are not for saving as many unborn children as possible. Why are they so quick to dump a fetus in the garbage as if it is nothing. Many women use abortion as birth control!

Quote from: Hobby on May 09, 2022, 04:22 PMI used California as an example that's all. In case you didn't know I do not live in California.  Abortion will not be banned in all 50 states if Roe is overturned. States will have set laws as to when an abortion can be performed such as during 1st trimester or when a human heartbeat is detected.  I don't get why people in the United State are not for saving as many unborn children as possible. Why are they so quick to dump a fetus in the garbage as if it is nothing. Many women use abortion as birth control!

And that's their business. Not yours. Just like anything you do is your business and not theirs.

I'm going to state the obvious: none of the female pro-abortion protestors are in danger of getting pregnant, they are not very attractive.

Quote from: Romanticlover on May 09, 2022, 05:22 PMI'm going to state the obvious: none of the female pro-abortion protestors are in danger of getting pregnant, they are not very attractive.

Too bad they have not come up with brain abortions, I would gladly pay for Micro Brain to be the first. LOL

Quote from: Hobby on May 09, 2022, 03:18 PMHowever, in a democracy NOT a theocracy there is freedom of religion (also freedom from religion).

This is not about religion or lack of although I would say nonbelievers find it easier to kill babies since they do not fear having to answer for their acts. Nothing will change if the Supreme Court overturns Roe in California.

Hypothetically an atheist could believe that life begins at the point of conception. That atheist could then believe it would be morally wrong to take the life of a fetus.

However, in the United States the antiabortion movement was pushed by religion. Initially, mostly by Catholics. Regardless of which church/religious doctrine, people following their religious beliefs and directed by church leaders brought about the laws against abortion. 

We previously discussed why people in California are getting involved. Link You just don't seem to see the potential negative impacts the same as others do.

Quote from: Hobby on May 09, 2022, 04:22 PMMany women use abortion as birth control!

I don't know how you came to believe that, but it is NOT true. Link

However, in the United States the antiabortion movement was pushed by religion. Initially, mostly by Catholics. Regardless of which church/religious doctrine, people following their religious beliefs and directed by church leaders brought about the laws against abortion.

Our nation and laws were built on the beliefs of people and religious values. Murder is illegal because it is morally wrong to murder another person, except when it comes to a fetus... I see things perfectly fine, the abortion issue has nothing to do with gay rights. Democrats want to cause fear saying if Roe is overturned then other rights will be taken away. That's a bunch of bull shit... If abortion or other rights were to be banned entirely by the states they would run smack into the 9th amendment.

Do women and men consider abortion as an alternative to contraception in the United States? An exploratory study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21590556/

QuoteOur nation and laws were built on the beliefs of people and religious values.

The problem comes from whose religion is the laws to be built on. Remember the Puritans were running away from the Church of England so that they would have religious freedom to practice THEIR religion. They set forth some onerous laws.

QuoteI see things perfectly fine, the abortion issue has nothing to do with gay rights. Democrats want to cause fear saying if Roe is overturned then other rights will be taken away. ]

As I said, not everyone sees things as you see them when I answered your why Californians question.
Personally I don't see taking away gay rights, interracial marriage rights, bedroom sexual rights, as there is no life involved. However, restrictions on rights to access contraceptives might become a concern. I remember when you could not buy condoms without getting them from the pharmacist.

QuoteDo women and men consider abortion as an alternative to contraception in the United States? An exploratory study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21590556/

The article would support that using abortion as birth control is not prevalent.

"...result in the PERCEPTION that SOME individuals rely on abortion over contraception to prevent unintended births."

"No one supported repeat abortions for themselves or others, and many respondents perceived multiple abortions to lead to infertility, which strengthens their position that substituting abortion for contraception is unacceptable."